Cartel gang violence doesn’t affect the public? You’re joking. 🙂 It even affects tourists! It affects people. People killing each other is the same, regardless of who the civilian is. I think we basically disagree on this fundament, so I don’t think this discussion is going to go much further here. All I see is people killing each other as a result of poverty and availability of guns. They both need to go. (The availability, that is, not the items themselves.)
Victor
- 0 Posts
- 16 Comments
Joined 2 years ago
Cake day: November 14th, 2023
You are not logged in. If you use a Fediverse account that is able to follow users, you can follow this user.
Then why did you go after me for pointing out that some parents teach their kids how to hunt? That’s literally what you’re claiming to not be against.
I am neither “going after you” (separate yourself from your argument, I’m not attacking you), nor am I against teaching your children to hunt. What I wouldn’t support would be kids carrying their own weapons like that. They should be handed a weapon when it comes time to pull the trigger perhaps, but not carry around their own loaded rifle or sidearm. That’s too dangerous, in the general sense, in my opinion.
So that’s basically what I reacted to from the very beginning. So if you didn’t mean that, this whole discussion has probably been moot.
The more I think about it the less sense it makes to me to exclude gang violence. I’m not able to grasp why it should be excluded. Gang members perpetrating violence are also people, are also members of society, and are also a product of poverty and their environment, just like non-gang members involved in gun violence. They might be driven by different factors but it’s still gun violence. I don’t get it.
It might not make sense for nuance’s sake to “lump it all together”, but it doesn’t make sense to me to completely exclude it either.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. What do you want me to provide, exactly?
It’s right up there with the number of murders with guns that don’t include gangs or police.
Why are you excluding murders by gangs and police? I don’t see how that’s fair or logical.
I personally think there’s a distinction to be made between cooking knives, cars, and guns. I understand all that about cars and knives being lethal weapons too, but it’s about how easy it is to make a mistake, and HOW DETRIMENTAL it might be. And it’s about at which age you are capable of fully understanding every aspect of handling each thing, and the risks that come with it.
You could make the same argument about piloting an airplane. Statistically, being in an accident in an airplane is far, far less likely than being in one in a car. But if you are in a plane accident, the chances of it being lethal to everyone involved is far greater than accidents in a car, statistically, surely. Nobody freaking survives a plane crash. Sometimes everyone perishes even it if happens before takeoff. That’s why you don’t see 18 year old pilots of passenger airplanes, let alone 16 year old pilots.
Knives are much easier to monitor and control by the supervising adult, so kids can learn handling them safely. Making a mistake is rarely lethal with a knife, especially since a lot of kids’ knives aren’t even very sharp.
My country does gun law pretty well, IMO:
Gun ownership in Sweden is regulated by Vapenlagen 1996:67 (literally, The Weapon Law), modified by weapon decree Vapenförordningen 1996:70 and FAP 551-3 / RPSFS 2009:13. The police issue licenses to persons older than 18 years in good standing on the “need to have” basis, which generally implies either hunting or sport shooting. Passing a hunting examination or membership in an approved sport shooting club for six months is required. Sport shooting licenses must be renewed every 5 years, whereas hunting licenses are valid for the lifetime of the holder. License-holders may lend a weapon to a person at least 15 years of age for supervised use.
This is exactly what I feel is appropriate. You’re not allowed to have a driver’s license until you’re 18 either… 🤷♂️ And not allowed to purchase strong alcohol until 21, just like America. Should alcohol also be allowed to children perhaps? Like I said, it’s not about learning, it’s about being capable of determining risk and making judgement calls, etc.
I didn’t say teenagers shouldn’t be able to learn. But having their own guns is not an option IMO. They can borrow in very controlled circumstances.
I don’t have a black-and-white mindset about it, just like you don’t. But it’s good to have rules of thumb because society can’t be run on a case-by-case basis. And that’s what I’ll say about it.
Gun laws are probably not going to matter if the guns are still available. You gotta get rid of the guns as well. And also the poverty of course.
But would you oppose my knife argument? Say there are no guns. Ever. Anywhere. What would happen in the streets? Would there be as much killing?
I understood what you meant. No misunderstanding there. I do not think teens under 18 should be handling a lethal weapon. Matter fact it should be over 21. My opinion. 🤷♂️
My jaw figuratively dropped when you suggested putting rifles and side arms in the hands of kids.
Gotta have an age limit on those things.
With this logic, saying poverty is what creates the violence, and that the existence of the guns have nothing to do with it, should mean that if you removed all the guns, you’d still have the same proportion of homicide with knives instead, or some other weapon.
And I don’t think that would be the case.
Poverty necessitates the violence, I agree. But the availability of guns makes the violence accessible.
Both are problems.
0·3 days agoHow does Canonical make money anyway? It’s been going for like two decades now…
Hold up. The US has over 100 guns per 100 people? 😳 So on average, everyone owns at least one gun? Tell me I’m reading that wrong!
.5 deaths per 100 people.
You mean per 100,000 people, right?
Why is that not relevant? It’s poverty and guns in combination.
Can you explain more how it’s the “same shit”? What does the nuance actually provide? I don’t get it. Why exactly does people in gangs killing each other due to poverty and gun availability differ from other people killing each other due to poverty and gun availability? Serious question.
Of course, brother/other. 🤝